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Post by Lagger on Jul 22, 2017 13:44:31 GMT -6
I spent some time today working on re-building the engine. Admin's (Colin's) videos are very helpful here although I did struggle with the gearbox for quite a while - the manual isn't all that helpful on this point and the pictures are not very clear. After reading the manual very very carefully I managed to get it all back into the engine case and could then start on lifting the crankshaft into position. I then ran a thin bead of silicone gasket around the other case half and then mated the two together. Current state of play is that the engine casing is now safely bolted together and all bolts torques correctly. Camchain guides are in, cam chains are in, cam chain retainers fitted. I found out why I managed to break the water pump retaining bolt when dismantling the engine - it's a left handed thread bolt! Some pics of today's progress: The recipe: Gearbox: BTW, I discovered that the roller bearing on the classic engine on one of the gearbox shafts is larger than the Meanstreak version, I had to swap the roller bearings over to get the shaft to fit into the retaining cup. Gearbox in the casing (I re-fitted the internal oil pipe after this, it has to be removed to allow gearbox removal. It's a total bitch to re-fit the pipe: Crank Fitted: Together again:
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Post by Lagger on Aug 11, 2017 8:30:09 GMT -6
A bit more progress last weekend, I hope to get the barrels and heads on this weekend and have the engine back in the frame by close of play on Sunday. With a little luck I'll have it running next weekend. So here's a question for the experts, what stops the starter gear (see first pic) coming off the shaft? (the bolt and washer don't) Some pics:
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Post by lee on Aug 11, 2017 14:39:19 GMT -6
The starter gear shaft and thrust washer basically mate with the hole in the clutch cover, it has a bearing pressed in it. It does seem kind of odd to me, too.
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Post by Lagger on Aug 11, 2017 15:56:44 GMT -6
The starter gear shaft and thrust washer basically mate with the hole in the clutch cover, it has a bearing pressed in it. It does seem kind of odd to me, too. Maybe i should be a little more specific, I didn't mean the torque limiter rather the larger gear ( bottom right in the first pic, maybe 4" diameter or so) The bolt and washer don't retain it, it's still free to float off the shaft - you can actually pull it out. It will rotate one way but not the other as the starter clutch grabs it. My guess is that centripetal force makes the starter clutch hold it firm when the engine is running
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Post by lee on Aug 11, 2017 16:02:01 GMT -6
Hm, I don't know. I thought there was that thick washer that held it in with the bolt. I don't remember now, and hopefully won't have occassion to get in there and look any time soon
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Post by Lagger on Aug 11, 2017 23:54:35 GMT -6
Well, that's what I thought too. I checked carefully, the manual and the parts list show that washer (it is fitted on my engine), the diameter is 33mm (part number 92022B92022-1906 WASHER,10X33X6) which is just under the diameter of the hole in the starter gear wheel (just to be certain we're talking about the same gear it's the larger one with the holes in it and the crappy looking weld - they all look like that though). If you grab hold of the wheel you can still pull it forward on the shaft and actually pull it completely off. As I said though, it will turn freely one direction but as soon as you try to turn it the other the starter clutch holds it firmly. I suspect it has to be that way to allow some float but I'm not really certain why this should be. Perhaps to disengage from the starter motor in some way? I'll have another look and do some more head scratching, maybe it'll reveal it's purpose. It just didn't seem right but I re-read that section very carefully and measured to make sure I had the right washer in place (the one on the other end of the shaft is larger). I also compared it with some other spares that I have and it's the same so it seems it must be right.
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Post by lee on Aug 13, 2017 19:34:00 GMT -6
It's strange, now you have me wondering. Does the thrust washer on the torque limiter cover the starter gear at all where they mesh? It looks like it might. Darn strange if that's what's supposed to keep the gear in place though.
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Post by Lagger on Aug 13, 2017 23:11:54 GMT -6
It's strange, now you have me wondering. Does the thrust washer on the torque limiter cover the starter gear at all where they mesh? It looks like it might. Darn strange if that's what's supposed to keep the gear in place though. The thrust washer does overlap the starter gear ring slightly but I agree, that would seem an odd way to keep that gear in place. One other possibility though, on the side cover there is a small plasticky-rubber thing that looks like it's job is to prevent that gear wandering too far.
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Post by lee on Aug 14, 2017 20:58:39 GMT -6
I thought of that too, but if the gear did wander it seems like it would just chew up that liner-thing.
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Post by Lagger on Aug 15, 2017 2:55:44 GMT -6
I thought of that too, but if the gear did wander it seems like it would just chew up that liner-thing. Possibly. Anyway, I re-read that section of the manual (just to be sure), it actually states "pull of the starter gear" and then a couple of steps later it says to undo the bolt; it seems that it's quite correct. It just seemed a little odd so I thought I would double check. Learn something every day!
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Post by Lagger on Aug 15, 2017 3:00:48 GMT -6
Thinking more about how it works I have the following scenario: starter energises and engages the gear. Gear in turn rotates and is gripped by the starter clutch thus turning the engine to start (remember I said the starter gear will rotate freely one way but not the other as the starter clutch grabs it). Engine then starts and speed of rotation increases allowing the starter clutch to release the starter gear since upon engine start the starter will be de-energised by releasing the starter button. Starter motor stops rotating and since it is engaged with the starter gear this gear is held and simply spins on the needle roller bearing it fits over thus freely rotating inside the starter clutch. I think that the torque limiter acts in some way to prevent the momentum/inertia of the starter gear from translating into starter motor rotation. Or something like that anyway....
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Post by Admin on Aug 16, 2017 12:46:54 GMT -6
The starter gear shaft and thrust washer basically mate with the hole in the clutch cover, it has a bearing pressed in it. It does seem kind of odd to me, too. Maybe i should be a little more specific, I didn't mean the torque limiter rather the larger gear ( bottom right in the first pic, maybe 4" diameter or so) The bolt and washer don't retain it, it's still free to float off the shaft - you can actually pull it out. It will rotate one way but not the other as the starter clutch grabs it. My guess is that centripetal force makes the starter clutch hold it firm when the engine is running It has a one way Sprague on it also the rubber guide on the side cover holds it in place
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Post by Admin on Aug 16, 2017 12:47:38 GMT -6
Well, that's what I thought too. I checked carefully, the manual and the parts list show that washer (it is fitted on my engine), the diameter is 33mm (part number 92022B92022-1906 WASHER,10X33X6) which is just under the diameter of the hole in the starter gear wheel (just to be certain we're talking about the same gear it's the larger one with the holes in it and the crappy looking weld - they all look like that though). If you grab hold of the wheel you can still pull it forward on the shaft and actually pull it completely off. As I said though, it will turn freely one direction but as soon as you try to turn it the other the starter clutch holds it firmly. I suspect it has to be that way to allow some float but I'm not really certain why this should be. Perhaps to disengage from the starter motor in some way? I'll have another look and do some more head scratching, maybe it'll reveal it's purpose. It just didn't seem right but I re-read that section very carefully and measured to make sure I had the right washer in place (the one on the other end of the shaft is larger). I also compared it with some other spares that I have and it's the same so it seems it must be right. It has to freewheel when engine is running
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Post by Lagger on Aug 16, 2017 13:19:20 GMT -6
Well, that's what I thought too. I checked carefully, the manual and the parts list show that washer (it is fitted on my engine), the diameter is 33mm (part number 92022B92022-1906 WASHER,10X33X6) which is just under the diameter of the hole in the starter gear wheel (just to be certain we're talking about the same gear it's the larger one with the holes in it and the crappy looking weld - they all look like that though). If you grab hold of the wheel you can still pull it forward on the shaft and actually pull it completely off. As I said though, it will turn freely one direction but as soon as you try to turn it the other the starter clutch holds it firmly. I suspect it has to be that way to allow some float but I'm not really certain why this should be. Perhaps to disengage from the starter motor in some way? I'll have another look and do some more head scratching, maybe it'll reveal it's purpose. It just didn't seem right but I re-read that section very carefully and measured to make sure I had the right washer in place (the one on the other end of the shaft is larger). I also compared it with some other spares that I have and it's the same so it seems it must be right. It has to freewheel when engine is running Cheers, that's what I thought but it took me a while to think the process through (probably having a senior moment)
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Post by Lagger on Aug 24, 2017 12:33:12 GMT -6
Good news and not so good news. Engine is now fully re-assembled - hurray! That's the good news. The bad news is that I stupidly managed to drop a 10mm washer into the engine! This happened before I fitted the front jug. I peered around using a torch as much as I could. I also removed the rear jug and tried again - no luck. I can't see it at all. I now have two options - ignore it and hope it stays wherever it ended up - I think it's dropped into the lower sump area. Or option two, try to flush the engine out with something like parafin and try to flush it out. Tomorrow I will remove the sump plug and the oil strainer to see if I have a little luck and can find the washer. Keep your fingers crossed for me - I really don't fancy stripping the engine again!
And yes, I have given myself a good verbal kicking!
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Post by Admin on Aug 24, 2017 19:34:38 GMT -6
Good news and not so good news. Engine is now fully re-assembled - hurray! That's the good news. The bad news is that I stupidly managed to drop a 10mm washer into the engine! This happened before I fitted the front jug. I peered around using a torch as much as I could. I also removed the rear jug and tried again - no luck. I can't see it at all. I now have two options - ignore it and hope it stays wherever it ended up - I think it's dropped into the lower sump area. Or option two, try to flush the engine out with something like parafin and try to flush it out. Tomorrow I will remove the sump plug and the oil strainer to see if I have a little luck and can find the washer. Keep your fingers crossed for me - I really don't fancy stripping the engine again! And yes, I have given myself a good verbal kicking! Crap man that sucks. Got to get that out of there
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Post by Lagger on Aug 25, 2017 6:40:39 GMT -6
Found it! Removed the generator cover, there it was, saves me ton of work
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Post by hagger on Aug 25, 2017 7:12:23 GMT -6
That is good news, dont want it hanging around in there.
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Post by Lagger on Aug 25, 2017 12:40:42 GMT -6
That is good news, dont want it hanging around in there. Definitely not, don't need extra bits flying around. Engine is now in the frame!
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Post by Lagger on Aug 28, 2017 8:26:02 GMT -6
Dang it, just been having nasty thoughts, I don't remember aligning the marks on the flywheel! Best be taking that danged cover off again to re-check it. Here we go again.....
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Post by Lagger on Aug 28, 2017 12:34:59 GMT -6
Dang it, just been having nasty thoughts, I don't remember aligning the marks on the flywheel! Best be taking that danged cover off again to re-check it. Here we go again..... Right, been back into the generator, would someone please confirm that I have this right? All images done with the crankshaft set in line with the TDC indicator on the casing. First up, counter balance and Crankshaft wheel alignment: Next with the flywheel in place (after fitting the inner alternator - more on that in my new thread "Generator"). The flywheel will only fit on one way, it's keyed to fit the crankshaft, crankshaft still aligned with TDC marking, the mark on the flywheel lines up with the mark on the counter balance, it's hte first of three marks on the flywheel. It doesn't look aligned on this photo but that's just due to the camera angle. So, that means that the counterbalance and crank are lined up and the flywheel as well, all looks good, am I right? (by the way, I actually had already done this, I was being paranoid) PS, I also just noticed that the MS flywheel is different! Doh! I'd better have a rummage in my parts boxes to see if I have one. Bugger it!
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Post by Lagger on Aug 28, 2017 13:05:56 GMT -6
Solved! I have a meanie flywheel! Now the alignment mark instructions make much more sense
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Post by Admin on Aug 28, 2017 15:46:05 GMT -6
You line up short line on meanie flywheel with the counter balancer mark.
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