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Post by Lagger on May 6, 2017 8:54:41 GMT -6
Well, I'm after a little advice once again. I'm stripping my engine to get it ready for some R&R and I can't remove the clutch retaining nut. I'm using the old hillbilly screwdriver method* to stop the clutch basket turning and that seemed to be working. Then however I noticed that the nut is not unscrewing, closer inspection through the top of the block (engine case) shows gear shafts turning when I turn the nut. (The clutch basket doesn't move but the shaft behind the nut is obviously turning) Clymer's doesn't help as it states "Remove the nut using an impact air wrench" which is what I would do except I don't have a compressor (lent it to a friend years back and he's still got it) so I'm using a socket and my big bastard three foot breaker bar
What am I doing wrong? Would it make any difference that I already loosened the flywheel nut? I tried with the gears engaged and in neutral, made no difference.
Any ideas?
*Screwdriver between the gear teeth
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Post by Lagger on May 6, 2017 10:56:04 GMT -6
Well, after having had a cup of tea, scratching my head and thinking about it a little I realised that the clutch itself must be allow slip. I've wedged a screwdriver between the plates which has stopped the rotation but my, that nut is f.f.f.fairly tight!
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Post by lee on May 6, 2017 11:38:31 GMT -6
You can put that screwdriver between the primary & crankshaft gears to stop them from turning. gadgetsfixit.com/articles/maintenance-tips/113-clutch-spring-replacement. I used the "penny" method, but the gears turned anyway and just ate the penny. A big screwdriver wedged in there worked fine. At 108 ft-lb the impact wrench helps a lot, but you'll still be torquing it manually to put it back on. It's a PITA for sure.
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Post by Lagger on May 6, 2017 13:04:24 GMT -6
I ended up using a penny, finally got the nut off, it's a real PITA! I did have my screwdriver between the gear on the back of the clutch basket and the main gear on the end of the crank but it still slipped, I followed Gadget's method (great site that and very useful!) It seems I'm not the first to do this on this engine, the previous "mechanic" managed to break a small piece off the internal wall of the casing, obviously the cam chain wasn't held up out of the way and bunched up around the crankshaft, a very small piece has been broken off next to the chain retainer. It won't matter but there's a jagged edge that doesn't look pretty, I'll clean it up with my Dremel and repaint that bit so it won't look amiss (probably a little over the top but I hate things not being just-right and I'm aiming for as close to perfection, new-bike feel as I can get).
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Post by Admin on May 6, 2017 20:10:45 GMT -6
I ended up using a penny, finally got the nut off, it's a real PITA! I did have my screwdriver between the gear on the back of the clutch basket and the main gear on the end of the crank but it still slipped, I followed Gadget's method (great site that and very useful!) It seems I'm not the first to do this on this engine, the previous "mechanic" managed to break a small piece off the internal wall of the casing, obviously the cam chain wasn't held up out of the way and bunched up around the crankshaft, a very small piece has been broken off next to the chain retainer. It won't matter but there's a jagged edge that doesn't look pretty, I'll clean it up with my Dremel and repaint that bit so it won't look amiss (probably a little over the top but I hate things not being just-right and I'm aiming for as close to perfection, new-bike feel as I can get). Go get ya an electric impact. These things are great. Lots of tq. You can get the cordless ones now too
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Post by Lagger on May 7, 2017 0:25:21 GMT -6
I ended up using a penny, finally got the nut off, it's a real PITA! I did have my screwdriver between the gear on the back of the clutch basket and the main gear on the end of the crank but it still slipped, I followed Gadget's method (great site that and very useful!) It seems I'm not the first to do this on this engine, the previous "mechanic" managed to break a small piece off the internal wall of the casing, obviously the cam chain wasn't held up out of the way and bunched up around the crankshaft, a very small piece has been broken off next to the chain retainer. It won't matter but there's a jagged edge that doesn't look pretty, I'll clean it up with my Dremel and repaint that bit so it won't look amiss (probably a little over the top but I hate things not being just-right and I'm aiming for as close to perfection, new-bike feel as I can get). Go get ya an electric impact. These things are great. Lots of tq. You can get the cordless ones now too Wish I'd known that the electric ones are now beefy enough to do the job, my neighbour offered to lend me his one but I didn't think it would be up to it. The last time I used an electric one it could barely pull the skin of a rice pudding!
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Post by Lagger on May 7, 2017 1:04:48 GMT -6
I ended up using a penny, finally got the nut off, it's a real PITA! I did have my screwdriver between the gear on the back of the clutch basket and the main gear on the end of the crank but it still slipped, I followed Gadget's method (great site that and very useful!) It seems I'm not the first to do this on this engine, the previous "mechanic" managed to break a small piece off the internal wall of the casing, obviously the cam chain wasn't held up out of the way and bunched up around the crankshaft, a very small piece has been broken off next to the chain retainer. It won't matter but there's a jagged edge that doesn't look pretty, I'll clean it up with my Dremel and repaint that bit so it won't look amiss (probably a little over the top but I hate things not being just-right and I'm aiming for as close to perfection, new-bike feel as I can get). Go get ya an electric impact. These things are great. Lots of tq. You can get the cordless ones now too This image shows the area where I found a small piece broken off the casing - it's the bottom of the "L" shaped piece near the crankshaft (sorry this is via link, insert image didn't work for me) Edit: There ya go. image
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Post by Lagger on May 7, 2017 1:12:06 GMT -6
Another question - anyone have an idea how to hold the damper cam to remove the retaining nut without the special tool? I have an oil filter strap wrench (metal one with dimple teeth) and was thinking of using that but I wondered if there's a better way.
UPDATE: Well, having looked up how tight that nut is (144 ft lb) I didn't even bother trying using the oil filter strap wrench, plus I need a 27mm deep socket to get at it anyway. I looked up the special tool needed to hold the cam (part number 57001-1025) it's no longer available so it's looks like I may have to make one unless anyone here has some creative ideas on how to remove the nut?
Cheers
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Post by Lagger on May 7, 2017 8:05:12 GMT -6
Go get ya an electric impact. These things are great. Lots of tq. You can get the cordless ones now too This image shows the area where I found a small piece broken off the casing - it's the bottom of the "L" shaped piece near the crankshaft (sorry this is via link, insert image didn't work for me) Edit: There ya go. Thanks Texas - how did you do that? image
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Post by Texas on May 7, 2017 8:52:54 GMT -6
This image shows the area where I found a small piece broken off the casing - it's the bottom of the "L" shaped piece near the crankshaft (sorry this is via link, insert image didn't work for me) Edit: There ya go. Thanks Texas - how did you do that?imageRight click on image. Click on Copy image location. Click on Insert image in tool bar above. Delete the http// in that box, then right click and paste the image location there.
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Post by Lagger on May 7, 2017 9:03:05 GMT -6
Thanks buddy, now I know :-)
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Post by Admin on May 7, 2017 11:51:27 GMT -6
Thanks buddy, now I know :-) What nut are you trying to get loose. Damper, not sure which one you are talking about.
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Post by Lagger on May 7, 2017 12:33:38 GMT -6
Hello, it's the nut marked as item 7 in this image: Taken from this image, Clymers describes it as "Damper Cam Nut":
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Post by Lagger on May 10, 2017 13:14:58 GMT -6
Obviously I've been suffering from early onset dementia - been having too many duh! moments. The solution was obvious, stick the crank gear and clutch back on and get the penny back in there, locks up nicely. Now I just need an impact wrench.
Having said all that, I'm not entirely certain that this method is safe - I don't want to damage anything and that nut is done up really really tight. Has anyone any experience of doing this?
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Post by Admin on May 11, 2017 0:41:30 GMT -6
Hello, it's the nut marked as item 7 in this image: Taken from this image, Clymers describes it as "Damper Cam Nut": Why are you taking that nut off? Maybe you said lol. I too am old and have CRS
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Post by Lagger on May 11, 2017 2:02:41 GMT -6
I'm stripping the engine case completely, the engine was bought as a replacement with unknown condition and I'd like to inspect everything. Plus it's a standard 1500 with standard 1500 gears and I'm changing the gearbox with a Meanstreak gear set I have. Ti di that I need to get that nut undone :-)
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Post by Admin on May 11, 2017 8:57:10 GMT -6
I'm stripping the engine case completely, the engine was bought as a replacement with unknown condition and I'd like to inspect everything. Plus it's a standard 1500 with standard 1500 gears and I'm changing the gearbox with a Meanstreak gear set I have. Ti di that I need to get that nut undone :-) I got ya. The standard 1500/1600 classic/ nomad transmission is a sought after unit here. First gear is the same as the meanstreak but 2nd-5th is higher ratio which in turn gives ya better on highway rpm ( lower ). I have never took that nut off but will be doing so here soon when I replace my meanstreak gearset with the nomad.
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Post by Lagger on May 11, 2017 9:15:22 GMT -6
I'm stripping the engine case completely, the engine was bought as a replacement with unknown condition and I'd like to inspect everything. Plus it's a standard 1500 with standard 1500 gears and I'm changing the gearbox with a Meanstreak gear set I have. Ti di that I need to get that nut undone :-) I got ya. The standard 1500/1600 classic/ nomad transmission is a sought after unit here. First gear is the same as the meanstreak but 2nd-5th is higher ratio which in turn gives ya better on highway rpm ( lower ). I have never took that nut off but will be doing so here soon when I replace my meanstreak gearset with the nomad. That nut is seriously tight. I've got the clutch back on and the penny wedged in good and tight. Just for shits and giggles I put my newly-delivered 27 mm deep impact socket on the nut and connected up my three foot breaker bar and had a bit of a swing. I can lift up the engine like that quite easily but the nut didn't move one iota! I didn't really expect it to move and I didn't play with it for long, even holding the engine in position and then trying on the bar the nut doesn't budge - it's supposed to done up to 144 ft lb so I knew it would be tough, much harder than the clutch nut which also put up a fair fight. I'm getting an electric impact driver just as you suggested before I give myself a hernia. I'd read somewhere about the gear set swap being popular over there, I was toying with the idea of keeping MS 1-4 but using classic/nomad 5th but I haven't looked into whether this is actually technically possible at all, just kicking the idea around in my head. I'll probably start off with full MS to begin with. I have a collection of gear sets at the moment, the standard in the engine which is from a 1999 Classic* plus two Meanstreak gear sets and one other unknown set in a box somewhere. * I know the final drive housing is slightly different on the Classic - no speedo take-off hole but I also have a correct Meanstreak Final Drive housing to go on my engine casing
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Post by Admin on May 11, 2017 9:48:50 GMT -6
I do believe all final drives, classic, nomad, meanstreak are the same for most part other than how the pinion gear housings are. Some are different
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